Archive for the ‘London UK’ tag
Documentary Making Advice
Simon Dickson – Deputy Head of Documentaries Channel 4 Television – talking about documentary making, about how to get into the business, and about good endings and good beginnings.
Adam Roberts, London Academy tutor for Documentary Making, talked with Simon Dickson at Channel 4 in London on 10th November 2010.
Simon Dickson, Deputy Head of Documentary, Channel 4 Television
AR: To kick off Simon, how did you get into documentary, and why documentary?
SD: I was a trainee at the BBC, not initially in documentary. I scooted around but the ended up with an attachment to the science department. They were big and lively programmes, and I liked that. They also had a business programmes unit run by a very dynamic man called Robert Thirkell. He was the exec on shows like Blood on the Carpet. I ended up making shows about David & Goliath struggles in the business world. As a result of that work I got a call out of the blue from Channel 4 inviting me here.
AD: So you’d made your mark! And that leads nicely on to the big question for Academy students, what’s the better path into the industry: make your own films and hope to get noticed, or get a job, any job, in the industry and work your way up in a production company?
SD: There are a lot of talented people out there, and you’ve got to find a way of getting noticed. Just because you’re good doesn’t mean you’re going to make it. It’s very hard to break in, and so it’s all about the contacts you can make, the people who you find to help you and the luck you find along the way. For that reason, I wouldn’t spend a lot of time and money making a film to tout around because commissioners are all egotistical people and they all want to have a hand in the creation of the film – they don’t buy off the shelf work, especially from the inexperienced. So it helps very much to have sponsors and mentors, do attachments to producers and production companies, see how they work, see how films are made first hand.
AD: But how?
SD: Networking is important. So sit down and watch as many films as possible, and determine who’s making the ones you really like. Then save up and take that person out to lunch, flatter them a bit, listen to them, and tell them how much you loved the last three films they made! Any chance I can come and carry your tripod for you for a bit?
Now of course students will say they can’t necessarily afford to do that. I respect that, but you can’t, in any line of work nowadays, just walk into a position that challenges you creatively and has a salary to do that work. Everyone that has made it to the top in television has had tremendous luck, but has also had to endure hardship along the way.
AD: What about traineeships or apprenticeships?
SD: There are links students can form with organisations like Channel4 Talent or the Sheffield Doc Fest, the Grierson Trust which is broadening its outreach programmes in the near future. There’s no one good or bad way of breaking in. Sometimes the wrong person is at the right place at the right time, or the right person at the wrong place and time…and so on! – there is a lot of luck involved, yes. But there’s no question that the more people you meet and know, the more luck is going to come your way.
AD: But do students need to make films so they know what they’re talking about when they ask to carry that tripod? They can only learn that by making films, so they need that too? And if you can generalise, should they be starting with an idea and then look for ways to convey that idea, or instead look for a person with an interesting story? That seems like some kind of choice…?
Channel 4 building in London, Photo Darius Norvilas
SD: That’s a tricky question. It’s asking whether they want to be an auteur film-maker and make feature documentaries, or do they want to work in television where the demands are quite different. Can they set their sights on a production company that does both types of film, who have mastered the art of making extraordinary feature docs but can also delivery fabulous television? There are several British production companies that have done that. Wall to Wall, make Who Do You Think You Are?… but have also made Man on Wire. Darlow Smithson make not only the brilliant feature docs like Thriller in Manilla, but also make extraordinary television like Rebuilding a Roman Villa.
It’s all about finding the right creative environment, about being surrounded by people you admire and respect and that you can learn from. That means finding people open-minded enough to let you, the aspiring creative individual, have some kind of meaningful role in their business. You need to find someone to let you in.
AD: Does the student need to have a sheaf of ideas ready and marshalled, a snappy show reel, or is it just about finding the right person to let you in?
SD: People starting out need someone who listens to them and takes them seriously, and values them and tells them what their doing right and what wrong. There are people like that in the industry, people who feel hugely privileged and feel like giving something back.
AD: Especially in documentary?
SD: I would say that!
AD: So what about the fears that students so often share, about keeping their ideas under wraps in case someone pilfers it. How do you have good networking conversations if you’re keeping your ideas under wraps?
SD: Very few ideas are that special. I can’t think of any ideas that have been harboured nurtured by any one individual that has gone on to be a smash hit. Ideas get better when they get passed around and discussed, taken apart and reassembled (in an atmosphere of creative trust of course). Not showing your ideas is less successful than an open discursive approach.
AD: but if a student is really keen to make an auteur film…?
SD: I respect that, but it takes luck. The guy who made Capturing the Friedmans didn’t know what he had until some way into his project. Turned out he had dynamite, but that was luck. For the auteur project, it will always be like that. But I respect that work too, if someone wants to go that way.
AD: What edge can someone give themselves, your top tip?
SD: Increasingly people who shoot their own films have an added value. They are self-reliant, especially at a time of budget restraint.
AD: What about films? What films should students be aiming to make? Long, short, what?
SD: Short films are very important, but hard to make well. Short films require thought, editing, compression of the narrative – it’s very hard. Hard enough to make a blinding 47 minute film is pretty hard, but the shorter it is the harder it is. Longer films seem often to me to be capable of being much shorter, but that work hasn’t been done. They’d be better for it!
AD: What about the Channel4 strand, 3 Minute Wonder? What’s happening to that?
SD: That’s currently being replaced by a religious strand called 4thought.tv. There are no immediate plans to bring 3MW back.
AD: That’s shame, because it was a strand that students feel they could aim for, something they could aspire to, pitch for. It’s given a lot of people their first screen credit.
SD: Duly noted!
AD: Do you have a favourite 3MW?
SD: I liked one commissioned by Kate Vogel called People in Order. It was a set of people counting from one to a hundred, each person being the age of their number. It had an identity, which many films don’t. It’s about making stuff that doesn’t feel like it’s just stuff, that’s the important thing!
AD: what about endings? A lot of documentary films fizzle out, or the ending too contrived.
SD: You can’t have a good ending without a good beginning, and a good beginning is one which gives you an indication of why you should devote some of your life to watching this programme. You don’t get that time back, whether it’s 3 minutes, half an hour of two hours. Why this film?
That’s not about cramming everything that’s to come into the opening seconds, in some kind of pre-title sequence. It’s about tickling interest, arousing fascination, promising some kind of experience. Too many films are made by film-makers for their peers. I’m a big fan and respecter of the audience, and they want a good beginning and a good end. It’s like fairy story – it’s about setting up the challenges for the hero, and what the success and failure are in that world.
AR: That’s very true! Thanks Simon.
